LESS DAW FEATURES!!

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:56 pm

Angstrom wrote:
forge wrote: I actually think it's because of the great automation palarva where you are basically forced to as soon as you want to automate
yes, but that's only the secondary reason. The main reason for using arrangement more than session is because I do lots of micro chopping, stretching and tweaking of clips. A bar on one single track might contain 16 different clips, and the next and the next.

even when I am arranging - the arrangement needs to be carefully planned and tweaked. It is complex music I am making ... it needs planning !

perhaps it's a different story for people making simplistic dance music, but I am not.

I use arrangement, not just to arrange - but to create complex parts. Session can't do what I want - arrangement can.

yes I almost put in a disclaimer for you.... but I figured we've already had this discussion a few times so it was a given!

I was more referring to a number of people I seem to come across who show me these sets they've been working on and it's all laid out in arrange as if it was LogicBase and they havent even got a clip in session - it boggles my mind actually

of course it is each to their own, and for me the automation is the FIRST reason, I just have a feeling there are a few people out there who get Ableton because they hear it's the one to get if they want to be a superstar DJ and then go ahead and use it as if it was a bog standard DAW

oblique strategies · Post by **oblique strategies** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:45 am

I'll add a voice to the chorus in wanting Live to maintain that which sets it apart from a typical DAW: it's performance oriented features. It's a valid concern.

I've been using Live since version 1, & the performance features & Session view are why I bought it in the first place.

I don't mind Live developing it's DAW aspects, but hopefully not at the expense of what makes it special.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:34 pm

yes, I agree that there are a few performance features that Live could really do with to connect the recent features up to a Live performer.
EG: Program changes for racks , that would be excellent.

it's all very well pitching "multiple Samplers in Racks" as a replacement for Kontakt, but if we can't change the presets then it's near impossible to use that Live

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:33 pm

well, i'm all for live performance related features, but that too means different things to different folks. further dj-helpful features are of no interest to me, because i'm not playing back/remixing/whatever pre-existing clips on the fly (not saying that's not legit). i'm creating all the music live, and with instruments, not SW, so i'm definitely in the focus on audio manipulation camp, but need more true looping capabilities. point being, even the camps -- daw v. live -- have sub camps.

(don't get me wrong, love the daw side, too, agree more innovation re arrangement would be great, use midi lots for some things, etc.)

condra · Post by **condra** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:52 am

In my opinion there is no reason why Live can't be both an amazing live tool, and an excellent DAW.

I use Live for DJ'ing and production and I feel that there are still some pretty basic things missing from both perspectives. - most notably:
multiple waveform views in Session for DJs
better automation in Arrangement view for producers.

labrat51 · Post by **labrat51** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:30 pm

sorry , but i think brian richards is just plain rude.

but then again, people clever enough to use things like max/msp and supercollider.....well we're waiting on you actually to take all that hard work and turn it into something that blows your mind at the click of a mouse,

oh and then turn it into a vst or au so we all get to have a go. DBLUE GLITCH, CASE IN POINT, be VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR young jedi's, the quick and easy path is that of the dark side etc etc etc ad nauseam..........

seriously though, there's still quite a lot out there that can be patched together to achieve total off the wall ness, buzztracker, plogue bidule, reflex,reaktor,pluggo,jack, midiyoke,revisit, and you know what, sod it, bounce or audio hijack all of the above, get busy with a pair of scissors and dump the finished wav's in, WHO's GONNA GIVE A TOSS when they hear it? and anything more complicated than a whole computer dedicated to reaktor with a 32 bank controller somewhere near your left knee to run alongside the mountains of kit you already brought along just aint gonna happen on stage with any less than four of you - and there's only so many key combinations for those of the laptop variety, remote zero's are fiddly unless you don't drink , smoke, etc, than WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING AT A GIG???????

ok ok... i do have an end to this drivel, WHAT ABOUT SOMETHING SIMPLE AND APPEALING EQUALLY TO THE DAW STALWARTS AND THE VENETIAN SNARES WANABEES!!!!!! LOGICAL EDITOR....like on cubase since YEARS!!!! oh , thats TRANSFORM for logic users. I just got into it the other day, random vel, note, cc, prg ch, note length, keep hittting it long enough it'll come up with SOMETHING you can use, give or take an edit or 5. ableton's midi section can benefit from that surely, oh and they can call it something really cool like cross parameter generator, all stuck together as one word or something...........

allright, time for bed, i'm off to reunion island tomorrow, 57 percent humidity, laptop's gonna lurrrrrve it.

labrat51 · Post by **labrat51** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:36 pm

Angstrom wrote:yes, I agree that there are a few performance features that Live could really do with to connect the recent features up to a Live performer.
EG: Program changes for racks , that would be excellent.

it's all very well pitching "multiple Samplers in Racks" as a replacement for Kontakt, but if we can't change the presets then it's near impossible to use that Live

Yo're on to something there mate.

so far , i've had to set the on/off buttons to param ranges on most fx inside a rack as i flick thru them ( creating the illusion of having a multi fx rack with lots of presets) alongside the chains to conserve cpu, an intelligent way of doing this would be nice....1, build fx rack, 2 save to p01, go to p02, start agaain, ableton taking into account that when you change from preset to preset , its to switch off the previous and load the next.....

or would it take as long as an eventide harmonizer to load??????????

Bran richards · Post by **Bran richards** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:11 am

labrat51 wrote:sorry , but i think brian richards is just plain rude.

BAHAHAHAHAH what are you fifty with a cardie and a comb over sipping on sherry?

I said the word "Stupid" OMG curb your rudeness young man you will turn into a hooligan.

Seriously your awesome , forget the fact that i made a valid point which is "less daw features" is a poor request

Ps. my names bran not brian

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:33 pm

it's fewer, not less.

labrat51 · Post by **labrat51** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:31 pm

sorry bran. and nice one. not too into sherry apart at xmas, won't be too long before i end up in lemon yellow v neck and mocassins though.

labrat51 · Post by **labrat51** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:14 am

condra is right.

multi wave views. good idea. how about multi screen support, ( arrange on one page, session on the other etc.)

nslhrn · Post by **nslhrn** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:38 pm

Live is great. It is non-linear AND linear. Real musicians and real tech heads use Live. Keep the love happening. 32bit internal audio - many of the Top DAWs don't have that. The sound Engine is great.

Learning one tool for creating, arrrangment and 'mastering' Great job Ableton.

For composers- the workflow can be sweeter than the other DAWs -non-linear, like the growth of plants and the evolution of planets.

All that gibberish to say - more DAW features AND more out of the box(clip?) thinking !

Theres always Rewire and IAC for folks who want other apps' functionality

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:11 pm

Angstrom wrote:Copying Max or Kyma would be just as fruitless as copying Cubase or Logic. Taking elements that work from each of these apps is much more sensible.

How about including the whole app? Coming soon: Cubase for Live!

vanceg · Post by **vanceg** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:57 pm

Lifer wrote:I would dearly love to see Live take more influence from Kyma or Max . I really hate to see Live become another (if not improved) DAW.
There were/are some really forward thinking ways in Live, for using it to explore new ways of making music and making electronic music "performable".
I would love to see much more of this type of R&D..
Oh..and can we have a built in IR verb so i can automate and use one in Rewire mode please?

And I, on the other hand, would like more DAW like features in the Arrange window...but only enough to make Live capable of being my primary audio environment: Functional Crossfades are a great first step toward this.

Beyond some basic DAW like features which will allow me to actually edit and mix my productions in Live, I completely agree that the focus should be on 'innovative performance oriented features'.

Vance

mr.ergonomics · Post by **mr.ergonomics** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:04 am

I like to have all (sequencing, playing live) in one program and it's great to record you liveset direct in the arrange. Using two programs is just more overhead and hassle.

Anyway - if live had rewire with VST support I might use cubase alongside - don't know.

LESS DAW FEATURES!!

ode to condra...hyper??????

Re: ode to condra...hyper??????

two cents . . too late?

Re: LESS DAW FEATURES!!