OT: Pro Tools 8 details announced

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:00 pm

leedsquietman wrote:I have access to one at work, along with Logic and Cubase.

Vastly overpriced. The system itself is good for audio and audio editing, MIDI is just as weak as PTLE and it has too many restrictions like only 5 inserts per channel. Some of the plugins are nice, but mostly you can get these for native systems or excellent alternatives. The very low latency is of benefit, but you can get super low latencies on RME interfaces too.

I stand by my earlier comment. The uneducated are the ones who blindly follow. I know several engineers who run ProTools courses who cannot even stand the software and use Cubase or Logic or Sonar.

You have access to PT Le? and you have a few homies that can't stand Pro tools? That's your argument? Well there it is everybody, pack it up, game over. Right, let's forget about the other million serious cats who love it.???

Dude, give it a rest. You are not qualified with PT enough to confuse people on this board which is the only problem I have with you. PT started out as a pro studio system and still is. PT Le is merely an entry level step introduced years after the fact. It is an industry standard not because of Le, but because of the pci and nubus line for professional production. Lots of people have that in their homes and it's only over-priced for people who don't make money in the business.

Ok, 5 inserts?
Yeah, with 128 internal busses. Not to mention the 192 audio tracks, 10 sends per track, , 160 aux inputs. If you had any chops on PT you would not have mentioned any insert limitation.

Midi? PT7 midi was really good, PT8 midi has just crushed them all. Game over.

Yes, PT has the lowest latency over all tracks simultaneously. Even in the middle of a hundred track mix session with 50 48bit dbl precision plugins going all the way to the mix buss, you can perform and record a Vi as easy as just dropping in without a worry or delay.

Uneducated? Blindly follow? You think that's me and my homies? Oh, the irony.

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:43 pm

subbasshead wrote: the strangest thing I find though is this issue with 'industry standard'
WTF? who cares what anyone else uses?
use what works for you & GET OVER IT

the vehemence of the reaction about something that really has no effect on you makes me think there is some deeper psychological issue at the core of it - whether its an inferiority complex (and I am not saying one app is better or worse than the other - they are different, thats all. End of story)
or where does this big chip on the shoulder come from?

ProTools has been around a LOT longer than many other apps & has evolved a long way - many of its most important features (to me) simply would not be apparent to someone who hasnt used it much (esp with that chip on your shoulder)
its like Photoshop in that sense, of coure there are alternatives & for some uses other apps may well be 'better' but maybe its time to get over the childish 'this is better than that' tantrums...

use what works best for YOU

I don't have a personal issue with PT. I just find it slightly annoying that, now that I'm starting to get into some Post-prod jobs, it basically means I'll be forced to learn a new program from the ground up.

May sound like fun for some, but when I already had gotten nice and cozy with Live and Logic, well... I can't deny I kind of wish studios and post houses in the area were a little more open about this. Would be easier for me to land a day job that way

But I'm not complaining. I'm manning up and doing what I need to do to get ahead, so I'm getting myself an LE setup, just to be able to get some PT skills to show off and put to practice at some post houses. and that's that.

All this bitching back and forth about PT bores me already.

EDIT:
PS: I'm able to buy an academic version of PT. Are there any more limitations to the academic or is it the same as LE?

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:55 pm

PT is super easy to get yer head around. You'll breeze through it.

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?nav ... emid=23232 < academic vs Le

I normally stay out of the PT arguments, but when I read unhelpful bs I gotta be helpful.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:13 am

aqua_tek wrote:
subbasshead wrote: the strangest thing I find though is this issue with 'industry standard'
WTF? who cares what anyone else uses?
use what works for you & GET OVER IT

the vehemence of the reaction about something that really has no effect on you makes me think there is some deeper psychological issue at the core of it - whether its an inferiority complex (and I am not saying one app is better or worse than the other - they are different, thats all. End of story)
or where does this big chip on the shoulder come from?

ProTools has been around a LOT longer than many other apps & has evolved a long way - many of its most important features (to me) simply would not be apparent to someone who hasnt used it much (esp with that chip on your shoulder)
its like Photoshop in that sense, of coure there are alternatives & for some uses other apps may well be 'better' but maybe its time to get over the childish 'this is better than that' tantrums...

use what works best for YOU
I don't have a personal issue with PT. I just find it slightly annoying that, now that I'm starting to get into some Post-prod jobs, it basically means I'll be forced to learn a new program from the ground up.

May sound like fun for some, but when I already had gotten nice and cozy with Live and Logic, well... I can't deny I kind of wish studios and post houses in the area were a little more open about this. Would be easier for me to land a day job that way

But I'm not complaining. I'm manning up and doing what I need to do to get ahead, so I'm getting myself an LE setup, just to be able to get some PT skills to show off and put to practice at some post houses. and that's that.
?

if you know what you're trying to do then learning another tool is the least of your worries - you'll probably be whizzing around it in a couple of days - I have never had the need to use protools but I've worked in a VO/Advertising type studio for several years that had to use many different programs, including some really obscure ones that dealt in phone formats no one's ever heard of - in any work environment the priority is always on getting the job done and learning the program never takes long if you know what you're trying to do

and getting up to speed in a new program can only ever be a good thing for your CV

@knotkranky - so you think LE is a waste of time? I have been thinking about giving it a go for arranging and mixing, but there's no way I could afford a full PT setup

In my case I'd be looking at M-Powered - what is the difference with the Academic version? that link didn't say

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:44 am

^ No forge, not a waste of time at all since the UI is the same. If you can rock Le you can rock a full blown system without a single problem. Example; In the late 90's i had a cracked version of PT called PT free which eventually led to Le. I simply used the mini i/o's on my mac. After a few months of dropping in and out, editing and whatnot, I was lucky enough to get a call to do some pT work with Quincy Jones. I said yeah, i'm a PT pro, wink wink. I had never used a full system before. I only plinked around on my cracked PT native until then. I walked into the session with a huge rig sitting right there and I got to work immediately.

Not knowing at least the basics of PT is like not knowing how to drive a stick shift car.

Most of the diff vs academic info is at the bottom of that link

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:00 am

Who mentioned protools LE ? We have a PTHD3 system with accel cards and 192 I/O run on 2 Mac Pro octacores, upgraded in June. Before that we had the 888 system.

If you had ever tried a Nuendo studio or Logic setup with Apogee Symphonys for any period of time, you would realize how tired and dated a PT setup is. You can get latencies of 1.7 ms total trip on that system. Not that you would ever need it that low anyway *except tracking drums*, especially for mixing. The game is just beginning!

And no matter how much you sell PTHD at it's exorbitant and unjustified cost. Anyway, even PT fanboys should be happy that Nuendo and Logic are around to push the envelope, otherwise Digidesign would have a very easy time of things and have no need to change 'the industry standard'.

I have been recording since 1986, I'm not some noob and while I admit that I have only done 2 protools courses and avoid using it like the plague in general, making me a pretty biased and subjective read, my opinion is still valid. I haven't worked with Quincy Jones, which I should imagine is awesome, but I do have plenty of experience, Whether this makes me a serious enough cat or not to debate, is a matter of opinion.

The main point I make is this. There are alternatives to PT, even PTHD, most of which cost less, give you more flexibility and (arguably) more features. I am the first to admit that PT's GUI and the costs and closed system it is do not appeal to me. Even if you love the thing, it pays to be current and informed and know your competition.

Anyways - I feel pretty stoopid for dragging this PT debate on like this in the Live forum, so I am going to try and avoid getting into this shit from now on, because my love of Ableton is what brings me here.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:31 am

^
No worries leeds, there are advantages with proprietary turnkey systems and others with modular third party systems. I'm no fanboy but I guess i'm guilty anyway. Fact is, PT made me a lot of money back in the day and a little bit now which would not have happened with any other system. Cool sessions too, which was my point with Q and not a name drop. Expensive? yes, I won't argue, but the power and stability is like no other. It's like buying a car, it all depends on what you want to drive and the style you travel in. Cheers mate.

Vote Obama

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:08 am

LOL:

http://www.bubbleply.com/player.aspx?pi ... 4f096257ea

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:34 am

ROFLOL!

Thanks T, fuckin funny as hell. I just sent that to a few friends

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:42 pm

Tempted as I am to get PT8, I would be even more tempted if Live would host VSTs via Rewire (as all the other VST hosts that support rewire slave mode do).

I'm guessing that the Pro Tools users here probably like to compose in Live then mix in Pro Tools, which would surely be easier if this limitation were removed. If you are keen to see that sorted, please let Ableton know by voting in this poll:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... d79aad40ee

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:16 pm

Knotkranky - Peace. Thanks Bro. And respect. Quincy Jones is one of the all time top producers so if you're been working with him, your opinion is worthy of respect. I actually do respect you even if we disagree about PT. You talk a lot of sense on musical issues and engineering matters.

If you're 'not' kranky, I actually am because I'm in a bad mood after being in a minor accident in my car and having those cheating pirates a.k.a insurance write off my car and then offer me a totally insulting amount of cash to replace it. So in a depression and kind of a bit mentally unstable as that crash could have been serious, I am a bit cantankerous and I don't usually get so uptight about things. Really, what do I care what people use to produce their music, the best sequencer is the one which works for that individual.

lunabass · Post by **lunabass** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:56 pm

headquest wrote:Tempted as I am to get PT8, I would be even more tempted if Live would host VSTs via Rewire (as all the other VST hosts that support rewire slave mode do).

I'm guessing that the Pro Tools users here probably like to compose in Live then mix in Pro Tools, which would surely be easier if this limitation were removed. If you are keen to see that sorted, please let Ableton know by voting in this poll:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... d79aad40ee

with regards to just pro tools, i was always under the impression that this limitation was enforced by digidesign in that they dont allow vst's to be enabled in the rewire slave when connected to pro tools. i had never realised that this was an ableton limitation!

so if i was to connect flstudio to pro tools i would have access to vst's in fl?

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:55 am

leedsquietman wrote:Knotkranky - Peace. Thanks Bro. And respect. Quincy Jones is one of the all time top producers so if you're been working with him, your opinion is worthy of respect. I actually do respect you even if we disagree about PT. You talk a lot of sense on musical issues and engineering matters.

If you're 'not' kranky, I actually am because I'm in a bad mood after being in a minor accident in my car and having those cheating pirates a.k.a insurance write off my car and then offer me a totally insulting amount of cash to replace it. So in a depression and kind of a bit mentally unstable as that crash could have been serious, I am a bit cantankerous and I don't usually get so uptight about things. Really, what do I care what people use to produce their music, the best sequencer is the one which works for that individual.

Sorry about the bs you've got going. Yeah, watch out for businesses to be more bastards than usual right now. Everybody is trying to get/keep theirs. Thanx for the props, you're a good man here. Rock on...

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:37 am

lunabass wrote: so if i was to connect flstudio to pro tools i would have access to vst's in fl?

I've not tried the specific combination, so I don't know if Digidesign has also built in a limitation of this kind. But Ableton definitely has this limitation, evident in all rewire hosts.

So far as other rewire hosts go, the answer to your question is YES - if you have FL as a rewire slave then FL will still host VSTs. The same is also true for Reaper, ACID, Bidule, Project 5...

I suggest you check out the FL demo which can be downloaded from flstudio.com - then you will see whether it works for you in PT as it does in the other hosts. I would be interested if you or somebody could confirm as well, as I am considering PT8.