I've Been Sucked into the Void (a.k.a. New Mac User Thread)

[Homebelly]

I've never had a single piece of spyware, malware, adware, or a single virus on a Mac that doesn't have virus protection. I just don't run strange executables.

Thanks for the info.

What do you mean by this comment? Sorry, I'm really uninformed about macs.

There are one or two stories about how people have cracked OS X from the out side and given the OS a virus. The stories are a bit miss leading as it makes it seem as though some one has figured out a away be able to remote control or spy on the OS with out permission. To be able to do this on OS X you need to be able to log in at some level, to be able to do that you need a pass word, the best way to get that is to get a log of how the keyboard is being used. To get that log you need to install a small application, to install an application you need a pass word.
An executable is a package that will install an application.

[d3drocks]

Macs are great, unfortunately the majority of people who use them are frigging cretins. Its nice to be writing music and browsing freesound at the same time without slowdown or the threat of virus' . I think i'll be getting a mac mini as my main studio computer next time i upgrade it in a few years.

macs are not great. Agreed that the useres (for the most part) are arrogant pricks.
the thing that gets me going, is that Apple charges TOP DOLLAR for Mac OSX, yet it is built off of completely free software. it is heavly built on FreeBSD and Apache.
heres a list of everything mac users paid top dollar for, which is free in better OS's like Ubuntu
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.6/

hell, they even snagged X server, which allows for a graphical Interface.
even worse, they didnt even donate a penny to the projects they ripped off.

dont know about you guys, but I'll not be part of that community.
Linux and Windows are more my style.

[gjm]

My wife is the one pushing for the mac.

Ok, here is a situation that I would appreciate comment on.

My kids have a communal pc used essentially for games of various types, both internet based and HD based. They also surf the web, use chat sites like bebo and facebook, do their home work, play music, update and interact with their phones and mp3 players etc. This pc gets hit hard from adware etc, and things are forever being blocked by the AV program.

If I laid a macbook down in front of them, and they didn't change any of their habits, could I walk away from that machine and never touch it again (apart from OS updates)?

[xherv]

I've never had a single piece of spyware, malware, adware, or a single virus on a Mac that doesn't have virus protection. I just don't run strange executables.

Thanks for the info.

What do you mean by this comment? Sorry, I'm really uninformed about macs.

There are a few virus protection programs that, I think you'd have to be insane not to run on a Windows system. My brother works for Microsoft, working on-site to help customers manage large Microsoft installations, the first thing he does every single time is run virus detection utilities. Not the majority, but all kinds of customers, many with names you'd recognize, have viruses that threaten the security and existence of data to some degree. He's run scans that turn up hundreds or thousands of bugs on systems integrated with large databases that might contain your credit card number or your mailing address.

The reason behind this is MicroSoft being entirely willing to re-invent the wheel regarding user privileges and security. It's business-smart since a straightforward Unix-derivative technology here would not be proprietary. However, it's technology-stupid, especially as MicroSoft has handled it (the biggest blunder I remember is when you could click a link on Internet Explorer that reformatted your hard drive). Microsoft continues to revise and reform this stuff in Windows, and continues to run into problems that the Unix world dealt with decades ago.

Apple did the technology-smart thing and generally the most frequent vectors of virus infection on a PC don't exist on Macs. A Mac is not impenetrable, but the basic premises of security on a Mac are extremely open and tested over decades. On Windows achieving the same thing means a lot of work keeping virus protection solutions like Symantec or McAfee updated and even then Microsoft does some boneheaded things every once in a while that almost make it easy for malicious actors.

[Homebelly]

Macs are great, unfortunately the majority of people who use them are frigging cretins. Its nice to be writing music and browsing freesound at the same time without slowdown or the threat of virus' . I think i'll be getting a mac mini as my main studio computer next time i upgrade it in a few years.

macs are not great. Agreed that the useres (for the most part) are arrogant pricks.
the thing that gets me going, is that Apple charges TOP DOLLAR for Mac OSX, yet it is built off of completely free software. it is heavly built on FreeBSD and Apache.
heres a list of everything mac users paid top dollar for, which is free in better OS's like Ubuntu
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.6/

hell, they even snagged X server, which allows for a graphical Interface.
even worse, they didnt even donate a penny to the projects they ripped off.

dont know about you guys, but I'll not be part of that community.
Linux and Windows are more my style.

This is another Myth.
Both OS X and all of the Unix based OS's use some form of BSD.
However, OSX is an entirely different beast beyond that.
Darwin is still free and open source, but finder, aqua and all the other OS X technologies are what you pay for when you buy the OS.
An operating system is not it gui.

[d3drocks]

Macs are great, unfortunately the majority of people who use them are frigging cretins. Its nice to be writing music and browsing freesound at the same time without slowdown or the threat of virus' . I think i'll be getting a mac mini as my main studio computer next time i upgrade it in a few years.

macs are not great. Agreed that the useres (for the most part) are arrogant pricks.
the thing that gets me going, is that Apple charges TOP DOLLAR for Mac OSX, yet it is built off of completely free software. it is heavly built on FreeBSD and Apache.
heres a list of everything mac users paid top dollar for, which is free in better OS's like Ubuntu
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.6/

hell, they even snagged X server, which allows for a graphical Interface.
even worse, they didnt even donate a penny to the projects they ripped off.

dont know about you guys, but I'll not be part of that community.
Linux and Windows are more my style.

This is another Myth.
Both OS X and all of the Unix based OS's use some form of BSD.
However, OSX is an entirely different beast beyond that.
Darwin is still free and open source, but finder, aqua and all the other OS X technologies are what you pay for when you buy the OS.
An operating system is not it gui.

I dissagree. Apple sells a server edition of OSX. any BSD/GNU Kernel will always do the best for this. Apple is very lazy and didnt want to write an original OS (microsoft did, they wrote a few hybrid kernels, NT, for example).
its not a myth at all. Free software should stay free, not be marketed as something else.
another reason to avoid Apple is their use of DRM and other crap, that hits home to the music world.
my friend just got a mac, and after using windows iTunes, the mac, for some reason, erased his Ipod, removing TONS of musiche could not get back.

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/day01-macbook
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/day11-itunes
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/day15-steve-jobs
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/day19-iphone

all the points in those links, are valid reasons to boycott apple.

now, to be fair, i own 2 macs.
I have a Performa 2600 CD and a
and a powermac 7300
old, but still, i loved macs up untill OSX.
the DRM crap they are doing is just brutal.
not something I will be a part of.

[Poster]

the DRM crap they are doing is just brutal.

facts or it didn't happen..

[xherv]

macs are not great. Agreed that the useres (for the most part) are arrogant pricks.
the thing that gets me going, is that Apple charges TOP DOLLAR for Mac OSX, yet it is built off of completely free software. it is heavly built on FreeBSD and Apache.
heres a list of everything mac users paid top dollar for, which is free in better OS's like Ubuntu
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.6/

hell, they even snagged X server, which allows for a graphical Interface.
even worse, they didnt even donate a penny to the projects they ripped off.

It's clear from your post you don't really know what you're talking about here. When you pay for OS X a small part of what you get is an OS that is Unix-compatible because it's a technology-smart thing to do. Mostly you get a lot of proprietary stuff that fills all of the gaps that simply don't get filled unless you've got the kind of vertical integration that Apple can achieve and open source development doesn't, or doesn't do well. I used Linux boxes for years and years and it's like a never-ending project of restoring a car or remodelling a part of a house. OS X has never ever required anything like that, in fact it's the gold standard amongst operating systems in terms of how little user maintenance is required.

[xherv]

I dissagree. Apple sells a server edition of OSX. any BSD/GNU Kernel will always do the best for this. Apple is very lazy and didnt want to write an original OS (microsoft did, they wrote a few hybrid kernels, NT, for example).

Did you ever use NT? That was one horrible OS. Calling it a hybrid kernel is just marketing for the least featured, worst Unix compatibility ever - it's a complete joke, like a car without an engine or tires.

You've got it completely backwards; Microsoft was lazy (actually greedy, because proprietary tech = more $$$) and layed an absolute shitbrick with their attempt at POSIX compatibility. Apple decided OS X would be about using the best technology available, and in a lot of cases that meant using Unix or POSIX or open source tech. They've complied with the spirit and the letter of open source licenses in doing so, and really proved that Unix could be user-friendly without compromising what makes it good in the first place.

my friend just got a mac, and after using windows iTunes, the mac, for some reason, erased his Ipod, removing TONS of musiche could not get back.

Intended behavior. There is a warning message, and there are utilities to recover files - I think the files just get flagged as hidden.

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/day01-macbook
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/day11-itunes
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/day15-steve-jobs
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/day19-iphone

all the points in those links, are valid reasons to boycott apple.

What's funny is Apple's music DRM is pretty easy to circumvent, unlike a lot of the other DRM schemes this site is incensed about. Apple has even stated that they're looking for soft forms of DRM that discourage rather than eliminate *illegal* file sharing (it is in fact illegal, regardless of how one feels).

[d3drocks]

Did you ever use NT?

did you ever use XP, or Vista?
they use NT,
so dont tell me i dont know what im talking about, moron.

Intended behavior. There is a warning message, and there are utilities to recover files - I think the files just get flagged as hidden.

doenst make it right.
I know for a fact that all his music was paid for also.

What's funny is Apple's music DRM is pretty easy to circumvent, unlike a lot of the other DRM schemes this site is incensed about. Apple has even stated that they're looking for soft forms of DRM that discourage rather than eliminate *illegal* file sharing (it is in fact illegal, regardless of how one feels).

Stated, yes they have. done anything, nope, they have done nothing.
by the way, where i come from, file sharing isnt illiegal. the last case for it was thrown out of court, as the judge compared it to recording TV with a VCR.
It is possible to remove the DRM from iTunes music, but thats "illiegal" too.

I used Linux boxes for years and years and it's like a never-ending project of restoring a car or remodelling a part of a house.

Guess you have never heard of ubuntu.
I've got Ubuntu Running Pro-tools 8 LE, Fl-Studio, more games then i can count, and the best interfaces i have ever seen. is it broken? nope. easy to use? yep. easy to update? if you find clicking on a button, and having to restart for the Heavy updates hard, then yea, its hard to update.
I'm by no means a Linux Genius. I just read the extremely friendly and helpful Ubuntu forums.

but, lets go back to windows for a second. how many real games do you see on mac? one, or two?
apple cant convince developers to make games for them. no games = loss of a massive amount of users.
microsoft makes the tools for developing games directly availible to their users. it required some digging if you want to do this on mac.

PCs are half the price, for the same stuff. apple is simply idiotic to charge double the money just for a pretty box.

Ive an amaizing quote for you to think about.

It’s amazing to witness the lengths that people will go to in order to defend the one they love these days.
It’s even creepier when the one they love is an unresponsive and inanimate object – namely an Apple computer.
Apple has lost its status as a company to its consumers; it’s now a disturbing religious cult - a society of fanatical individuals dedicated to the name.
It’s almost fascism; destroying all opposition, leaving only the desirables, the Apple Computers.

also, apple likes to advertize that a mac comes with everything you need right out of the box.
Text Edit is the only writing tool that comes with any Mac. It has astonishing similarities and processing power to that of MS Notepad.
dont even mention that iWork bullshit. u have to pay extra for that.

http://wehatemacs.com/en-uk/content/view/41/2/


I'm done arguing with the likes of you. if you love macs, thats your choice.
use them if you want, just be happy paying double for what its worth, and paying for a company that wont donate ANY MONEY AT ALL to the projects that it built its Operating system, that ever so arrogant people love to love.

[xherv]

I'm done arguing with the likes of you.

Wasn't really a decent argument anyway. You're lying, stretching the truth, or just plain wrong on just about everything you're saying.

When you said OS X was 'heavily based' on Apache, this is a pretty clear sign you're in over your head.

Claiming to run FL or Pro Tools on Ubuntu but failing to mention you have to run in through a Windows emulator or dual-boot is pretty lame. I've used Ubuntu, I've used probably a dozen Linux distros, I've coded GUI stuff in Gnome (including OpenGL, which basically saved video game developers and probably a lot of hardware developers from all becoming MicroSoft DirectX slaves when 3D graphics was just taking off - that would have really hurt that industry). Don't misunderstand me here - Linux is one of the coolest things ever in the world of computing. But it's also just not appropriate in a lot of contexts, serious audio/video editing is a major one.

PCs are half the price, for the same stuff. apple is simply idiotic to charge double the money just for a pretty box.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/app ... ,1985.html - the analysis here is correct. You get as much computer as you would anywhere else for the cash, but you can't get a budget bargain Mac directly from Apple. Buy things like RAM or more hard drive off-site.

[Homebelly]

I'm done arguing with the likes of you. if you love macs, thats your choice.
use them if you want, just be happy paying double for what its worth, and paying for a company that wont donate ANY MONEY AT ALL to the projects that it built its Operating system, that ever so arrogant people love to love.

At the risk of sounding arrogant.

You can't get past this myth can you?
So. I'll take a shot at this and if any one else feels the need to correct me where i might be a little wrong, great.
Very quickly then...

First off, UNIX is a commercial product that forms the basis for a class of operating systems one of which is OS X. As such Apple have paid the licensing fee and also have to maintain OS X to a standard set by a consortium of other companies, in the case of apple this standard is called Darwin.
Secondly, LINUX is an open source GNU based operating system.
As such it is not over seen by any organized or formal body. One variant of this group of unix like OS's is Ubuntu.

There is also an over riding philosophy attached to Linux/GNU that any applications using it should also be "Open source" and this implementation is left to trust.
This opens up a whole lot of misunderstanding about what "open source" really is, but i'll leave that to you to work out by your self.

As to your friends iPod.
All he/she needs to do is re-down load any songs that got over written by "accident", he can do this from his account at the iTunes store.
I think you can do this five times?? across three computers.


[/i]

[Pasha]

mac book pro on the way

not mine though but it will replace my pc for our stage set up.
i'm the "band tech" so i'll have to do all the work... thats why i (easily) talked my singer into a mbp.

No offence but mbp are over kill for audio applications unless you REALLY need the extra 2 inch screen estate. Saying that, the new MB models don't have FW but that could be 'fixed' next week

Recently got a Line 6 Toneport UX1. USB that rocks. Latency zero. Great sound.
Do we really need FW for low number of I/O?... An my macbook now has a FW400 ready to host a drive...

[smutek]

my friend just got a mac, and after using windows iTunes, the mac, for some reason, erased his Ipod, removing TONS of musiche could not get back.

Shame your friend didn't read through that before clicking erase and sync.

The cancel button is even highlighted by default, for those people who are too anxious to read and just hit enter for every dialogue that pops up.

It's fairly well idiot proofed.

Let me guess, this little window didn't pop up for your friend, did it?

[Emissary]

Macs are great, unfortunately the majority of people who use them are frigging cretins. Its nice to be writing music and browsing freesound at the same time without slowdown or the threat of virus' . I think i'll be getting a mac mini as my main studio computer next time i upgrade it in a few years.

macs are not great. Agreed that the useres (for the most part) are arrogant pricks.
the thing that gets me going, is that Apple charges TOP DOLLAR for Mac OSX, yet it is built off of completely free software. it is heavly built on FreeBSD and Apache.
heres a list of everything mac users paid top dollar for, which is free in better OS's like Ubuntu
http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.6/

hell, they even snagged X server, which allows for a graphical Interface.
even worse, they didnt even donate a penny to the projects they ripped off.

dont know about you guys, but I'll not be part of that community.
Linux and Windows are more my style.

hmmm, having ubuntu installed on my old studio computer i think i can quite easily say that osx takes a large dump on it from a great height. Ubuntu isnt even as good as windows, i use it because it is safe, as i use my old comp for web browsing. Linux is great and all. unless you want to actually do something, then its hours of trawling forums looking for answers.