Have you done your 10,000 hours?

[H20nly]

If your lyrics consist of singing ABC's then yes, it would have started when you learnt your ABC's and applied them to your songwriting.

That would be plagiarism

[stringtapper]

This is not true. No one is born with an instrument in their hands. Even W.A. Mozart wasn't born with it; Leopold just put a violin in his hand as soon as he could stand. The people who have perfect pitch usually have it because they were intensely immersed in music from an early age, so the equal tempered pitches become familiar entities just like letters of the alphabet.

You got your "ear" from listening and playing. That's work. Anyone can learn to hear. I know this from experience. I teach college freshman ear training, and I know with enough work you can learn to hear. Yes we get some turkeys who can't match pitch, but that's mostly because they don't know how to use their voice.

Now I know you will say that I'm talking about ear training instead of "feel training," but I am talking about that too. Listening and absorbing styles is how you learn "feel." Active listening is work. If you had never listened to the kind of music you play on the bass, you would not have the feel or groove.

Would it be too much to ask for you to respond with something slightly more "in context"? Nothing I have stated touches upon your refute.

Please quote where I stated that "some people are born with instruments in their hands"

Just because you don't understand what I posted is no reason to assume what I am stating is not true. Learn to ask questions. You may just appreciate the experience greatly.

Please quote where I said that you said that "some people are born with instruments in their hands."

What I meant when I said that is that everything musical is learned. "You either got it, or you don't," sounds to me like you're saying that musical ability is some genetic attribute. If that's not what you're saying then I apologize for assuming it. But the reason I assumed is that I've heard that song before, and what you said sounds a lot like it. So can you clarify what you do mean?

[dcease]

the state of texas says in order for a person to be considered eligible for a master electrician license, the individual must hold a journeyman's license, pass an approved master electrician's test, and have 12,000 hours of on the job experience under the supervision of a master electrician... while i am not a master electrician by definition (2/3 ain't bad, lol), i am a masterful electrician

So how does this work with lyrics?

Anyone have any formulas for that?

as stated previously, you have *it* or you don't. true talent cannot be taught, and if you suck, practice won't make you any better at having *it*, it will only make you better at what you are practicing. for example, you can practice playing/singing *insert favorite song here* all you like, and you may become good at playing/singing it... but this does not make you a good musician/vocalist, rather, just good at memorization. you can go to your favorite arts and crafts store, and buy a paint by numbers canvas, and it could be beautiful, but this does not mean you are a good artist. sure, we are products of our environment, but that only gets you thru the door.

if i am to listen to what has been said to me, then i would be a good vocalist, and a damn good lyric writer (i, of course, believe otherwise, ), who makes somewhat catchy tunes. i would also make a good radio dj, or actor, or sports commentator thing is, i just like being me, and acting a fool and expressing myself come rather naturally. i have so many 'lyrics' written down in books, loose leaf, napkins, receipts, chunks of cardboard etc., it just comes out of me... i spend a good bit of time mulling ideas around in my head, freestyling, and rewording known songs, usually as nasty, and out of tune as i can every single day. hell, i even have a metronome in my head. i know for certain that i could never teach anyone else how to do this, or offer advice on how to become a great lyricist. but i can tell you, it doesn't matter if you can sing, or what you vocalize about (some will think you suck, others won't), if there is passion there, that's all that matters. this holds true for any 'thing' in life... you cannot be taught passion, and without passion for whatever you are doing, you can never be truly great at it, no matter how often or much you practice.



besides, i laugh at anyone who claims they have nothing new to learn, in any area. the day i stop learning is the day i give up oxygen.

[DrXparaMental]

So if you practice you get better.

OR

If you are "born with" it you practice to make those who aren't feel better.

Does this about sum it up?

I still want to know if this applies to lyrics. And if so does it start when you begin to learn your ABCs or when you actually start writing lyrics?

I like the humorous nature of the twist that you imply.

First of all, there is this incredible misunderstanding here that I have some how advocated "not practicing". That's utter rubbish and if someone can quote where I made that "point" or statement, I'd appreciate it.

What I have stated is that the majority of those that choose to play an instrument are NOT naturally inclined to do so. I have also stated that some of these individuals can even achieve technical prowess on their instruments of choice. Most of those same people that can and do exercise a few chops, and yet possess little if any real talent, are good for shit in bed. (so to speak) I have stated it before and will attempt to state it again as clearly as is possible. You cannot, by virtue of teaching or practice alone, be a truly great musician. You MUST have the element that is a natural inclination to truly excel.

No matter how much perfume you put on a pig, it's still a pig.

[stringtapper]

What I have stated is that the majority of those that choose to play an instrument are NOT naturally inclined to do so. I have also stated that some of these individuals can even achieve technical prowess on their instruments of choice. Most of those same people that can and do exercise a few chops, and yet possess little if any real talent, are good for shit in bed. (so to speak) I have stated it before and will attempt to state it again as clearly as is possible. You cannot, by virtue of teaching or practice alone, be a truly great musician. You MUST have the element that is a natural inclination to truly excel.

No matter how much perfume you put on a pig, it's still a pig.

So can you please define what you think this "natural inclination" is and where it comes from?

[H20nly]

i even have a metronome in my head. i know for certain that i could never teach anyone else how to do this, or offer advice on how to become a great lyricist. but i can tell you, it doesn't matter if you can sing, or what you vocalize about (some will think you suck, others won't)

No matter how much perfume you put on a pig, it's still a pig.

Exactly. Its all relative.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... or in this case the be-hear-der...
One man's shit is another man's masterpiece.
Beethoven may suck to someone who can't stand classical.

Its already basically been stated here, but I think it was well put that 10,000 hours of shit is still shit...

[timothyallan]

I have a lot of musical 'talent' that I sure didn't have 5 years ago. It came from desire, learning and practicing, it's not from something I was born with.

[H20nly]

I have a lot of musical 'talent' that I sure didn't have 5 years ago. It came from desire, learning and practicing, it's not from something I was born with.

No doubt. Same here.

Keep striving Bro!

[DrXparaMental]

I have a lot of musical 'talent' that I sure didn't have 5 years ago. It came from desire, learning and practicing, it's not from something I was born with.

Timothy, me think you better look up the word "talent" in the dictionary. I'm sorry bro, but music and the ego just never seem to part company. Talent is something you are born with, not something you magically get after a certain amount of time. I didn't mean to rob your thread. That's not my way. I simply know when I am right.

To MR. Stringtapper, I apologize for an improper reply but there is something wrong with your posts when I attempt to reply to them. There is no other person's posts that I having a problem replying to, but when I attempt to reply to your posts the cursor keeps jumping around and doing weird stuff. Maybe your computer is naturally haunted or something.

Seriously dude, if you don't understand or KNOW (I say that because it's a factual scientific understanding, not a theory or hypothesis)that genetic predisposition as as real as your students, I'm sorry bro, I can't help you. People are ASSUREDLY genetically predisposed to musical talent. It's a genetic memory thing my man. Read up, you'll dig it. It's amazing what is stored in the human genetic code.

You are flat out WRONG about natural talent. You are either (a) born with it, or (b) you're not.

[stringtapper]

To MR. Stringtapper, I apologize for an improper reply but there is something wrong with your posts when I attempt to reply to them. There is no other person's posts that I having a problem replying to, but when I attempt to reply to your posts the cursor keeps jumping around and doing weird stuff. Maybe your computer is naturally haunted or something.

Seriously dude, if you don't understand or KNOW (I say that because it's a factual scientific understanding, not a theory or hypothesis)that genetic predisposition as as real as your students, I'm sorry bro, I can't help you. People are ASSUREDLY genetically predisposed to musical talent. It's a genetic memory thing my man. Read up, you'll dig it. It's amazing what is stored in the human genetic code.

You are flat out WRONG about natural talent. You are either (a) born with it, or (b) you're not.

I had a hunch that I might get the "If you have to ask you'll never know," type of reply.

Sorry, but I'm a music scholar and this answer just doesn't cut it. Granted this is not my area, this topic is something the music education crowd talk about, so I haven't studied it.

You said I should read up. I work in the third largest university music library in the US and I read scholarly music articles on a daily basis (mostly on theory, composition, and music history) and have access to quite a bit of material. Can you point me to any scholarly articles that support your assertion? I'm serious too, not trying to make a point. This is what I do so I would like to know what's been written about this.

[Tone Deft]

maybe it's a circular definition, self fulfilling prophecy.

you can't make the call until after the person has demonstrated mastery or suckage. even then, someone can go from suckage to mastery or mastery to suckage.

I simply know when I am right.

that's a dangerous way to go through life. you've never been married, have you?

[DrXparaMental]

maybe it's a circular definition, self fulfilling prophecy.

you can't make the call until after the person has demonstrated mastery or suckage. even then, someone can go from suckage to mastery or mastery to suckage.

I simply know when I am right.

that's a dangerous way to go through life. you've never been married, have you?

Why in the world do you say that? Why, I am sitting here arguing with my wife as I write this.

[timothyallan]

I have a lot of musical 'talent' that I sure didn't have 5 years ago. It came from desire, learning and practicing, it's not from something I was born with.

Timothy, me think you better look up the word "talent" in the dictionary. I'm sorry bro, but music and the ego just never seem to part company. Talent is something you are born with, not something you magically get after a certain amount of time. I didn't mean to rob your thread. That's not my way. I simply know when I am right.

You are flat out WRONG about natural talent. You are either (a) born with it, or (b) you're not.

Okay, well that's your take and you're welcome to it.

I put the word in quotes initially as I don't think I was born with talent, but have acquired skill over the years. When I'm teaching, some people comment on how they wish they were 'talented' like me... and I tell them that it just takes practice. Perhaps I should tell them to swap the words and use 'skilled', as you are saying that you can't acquire talent?

[DrXparaMental]

Stringtapper, here are some links to point you in the right direction. Strange about not being able to reply to your posts directly. I wish someone else would "test reply" to see if the same thing happens. It may just be this computer. No clue.

Honestly friend, you must not have given this much thought. Are you telling me that you don't believe musical prodigies are inherently different with respect to their specific gene map? What about children that are able to play entire piano pieces after hearing the selection one time? Come on, me thinks you are much more intelligent than you are letting on to.

Start Here: http://weber.ucsd.edu/~jmoore/courses/w ... erit98.pdf

Then: http://www.world-science.net/exclusives ... -genes.htm

An excellent summation: http://csmp.ucop.edu/tcap/news/02_06_01.html

[DrXparaMental]

I have a lot of musical 'talent' that I sure didn't have 5 years ago. It came from desire, learning and practicing, it's not from something I was born with.

Timothy, me think you better look up the word "talent" in the dictionary. I'm sorry bro, but music and the ego just never seem to part company. Talent is something you are born with, not something you magically get after a certain amount of time. I didn't mean to rob your thread. That's not my way. I simply know when I am right.

You are flat out WRONG about natural talent. You are either (a) born with it, or (b) you're not.

Okay, well that's your take and you're welcome to it.

I put the word in quotes initially as I don't think I was born with talent, but have acquired skill over the years. When I'm teaching, some people comment on how they wish they were 'talented' like me... and I tell them that it just takes practice. Perhaps I should tell them to swap the words and use 'skilled', as you are saying that you can't acquire talent?

Precisely! Skills are increased and talent is appreciated. Both grow with good habits and accumulated experience. HOWEVER Tim, one must be born with the talent & aptitude to have it's specific context appreciate or grow, where as skills are developed and increased after your relative talents have been initiated via repetition.