There are a few reasons why Windows machines are "cheap":
1. Historically, Microsoft has taken a two-faced approach to piracy, allowing unlimited "underground" copying of their operating system and productivity apps, ever since Windows 1.0. MS only goes after large, juicy targets for copyright enforcement: corporations, govt's, educational institutions, etc.
2. As a result, most home Windows users expect the rest of their commercial software experience to be free, as evidenced by the exponential growth of the warez community from the 80s onwards, as BBSes met all the PC users with modems.
3. Hardware cloning pushed commodity PC prices down through the mid-80s onward. Apple did not use commodity hardware, hence had (and still have, though not to the same degree) much higher per-unit costs.
Apple can't do much about the first two items but it looks like they are moving slowly towards using as much commodity stuff as possible while keeping their stuff unique (Firewire, gigabit Ethernet, widescreen).
Strangely enough, once you get into the high-end machines, an Apple actually costs less than an equivalent PC.
-Alex
What is The Fastest Powerbook equal to on a PC laptop
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Alex Reynolds
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:48 am
- Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
- Contact:
really?
I built my P4 1.7GHz where I do most of my production, remix, and engineering work and it only cost me around $900-$1000. And yes, I use quality components (Asus, Matrox, Kingston, etc.). What you guys pay for is labor. I do my own labor, but then again, I've been a network engineer for 8 years, so I just "roll my own". all those nights studying payed off in more ways than one
the rest of the money I had went towards software, a good RME card, some converters and other stuff. where as If I bought a Mac to give me the equivalent power (a Dual 1GHz), I would have had no money left to buy anything....except the Mac.
unless your danny elfman being handed huge budgets for movie scores, sometimes you have no choice but to watch your budget. and like it was said before, as long as the apps we use are stable and work on either platform, then of course Im going to go for the cheaper route. as long as I get the job done in the end, that is all that matters.
cheers.
I built my P4 1.7GHz where I do most of my production, remix, and engineering work and it only cost me around $900-$1000. And yes, I use quality components (Asus, Matrox, Kingston, etc.). What you guys pay for is labor. I do my own labor, but then again, I've been a network engineer for 8 years, so I just "roll my own". all those nights studying payed off in more ways than one
the rest of the money I had went towards software, a good RME card, some converters and other stuff. where as If I bought a Mac to give me the equivalent power (a Dual 1GHz), I would have had no money left to buy anything....except the Mac.
unless your danny elfman being handed huge budgets for movie scores, sometimes you have no choice but to watch your budget. and like it was said before, as long as the apps we use are stable and work on either platform, then of course Im going to go for the cheaper route. as long as I get the job done in the end, that is all that matters.
cheers.
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Alex Reynolds
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:48 am
- Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
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definitely agreed on that one dude.
but it still doesn't explain why Apple charges substantially more for a system that actually runs slower when compared to a PC system in the same price range (when talking strictly about cpu performance).
1GHz Tibook: $2799.00
1.8GHz Sony VIAO (with larger 16.1 LCD): $1799.00
is it just me? something seems backwards doesn't it?
cheers
but it still doesn't explain why Apple charges substantially more for a system that actually runs slower when compared to a PC system in the same price range (when talking strictly about cpu performance).
1GHz Tibook: $2799.00
1.8GHz Sony VIAO (with larger 16.1 LCD): $1799.00
is it just me? something seems backwards doesn't it?
cheers
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Alex Reynolds
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:48 am
- Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
- Contact:
random wrote:definitely agreed on that one dude.
but it still doesn't explain why Apple charges substantially more for a system that actually runs slower when compared to a PC system in the same price range (when talking strictly about cpu performance).
1GHz Tibook: $2799.00
1.8GHz Sony VIAO (with larger 16.1 LCD): $1799.00
is it just me? something seems backwards doesn't it?
cheers
I think more than anything, it's substantially different. You can't just look at processor speed, comparing that VAIO and a TiBook isn't really fair. If you build a sony laptop with the same features as the highest end TiBook, you'll find it much more expensive than the TiBook -- not to mention you can't even get some features with the sony, like the wide screen.
You really have to look at what your application is, and then buy the hardware to match. For me, a TiBook with a superdrive is the best value right now, because it has all the features I want at a lower price. I could care less about the platform. That's the reason I'm picking one up next week.
Word,
Mike
I am the bumpitron.
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jump
pb
it doesnt surprise me that someone who would choose the powerbook today would also not realize that therse always new models introduced in a week. also. the 'widescreen' he speaks of as a theoretical advantage of the powerbook, is actually a disadvantage. most pc screens in that size range are 1280x1024..the tibook is 1280x854. thats right, you actually get less pixels, but theyre off the bottom so it changes the aspect ratio enough that they can get away with calling it 'wide'. but this is silly beacuse the vaio has 1600x1200, therefore blowing by the powerbook (until next week maybe?). also , the quoted 1.8ghz vaio has been replaced with a 2.4GHz model. i used macs for about a decade before, and an apple //gs before that, but am relatively platform agnostic and simply use whats best and it surprises me that people are so willing to go on brand loyalty in the face of disparities like this...
There is more to this than just speed. The sony he was talking about has a 2.4 desktop processor which makes it run out of battery power after just an hour or so.
A Sony with a Windows Professional OS (to match Mac OS) and roughly comparable features costs about the same (at least here: both are 3000 Euro, but that already includes 1 Gig of RAM on the PB).
The Sony's screen though has no match on any notebook -- fantastic.
format
[edit: allow me to quote a post by Troll at the MacNN forum here:
The best test I can think of would be to sit my mother down at a standard installation of a PC and then at a standard installation of a Mac and tell her to perform a bunch of tasks like set up a connection to the internet, download photos off a digital camera, post them to the internet, burn a CD. I reckon that's a contest that the Mac would win by a few hours. ]
He has got a valid point I reckon?
f.
A Sony with a Windows Professional OS (to match Mac OS) and roughly comparable features costs about the same (at least here: both are 3000 Euro, but that already includes 1 Gig of RAM on the PB).
The Sony's screen though has no match on any notebook -- fantastic.
format
[edit: allow me to quote a post by Troll at the MacNN forum here:
The best test I can think of would be to sit my mother down at a standard installation of a PC and then at a standard installation of a Mac and tell her to perform a bunch of tasks like set up a connection to the internet, download photos off a digital camera, post them to the internet, burn a CD. I reckon that's a contest that the Mac would win by a few hours. ]
He has got a valid point I reckon?
f.
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user2
platform
i really hate to contribute to this platform war rhetoric, but i am somehow compelled to respond..because whenever i would upgrade my macs, i would always give my old one to my mom, recently she was complaining about her g3 (with os x) so i set her up with celeron/XP, and she was able to figure it out without any help, which amazed me, because she was always asking questions about the mac...especially w/ os 10. the point is a lot of mac users spout off about "elegance" of user experience, and as someone who has been toying with computers for the better part of 2 decades, including being a registered developer of mac os x since it was called 'rhapsody' in 1997, i truly believe microsoft has a much better user interface and experience than apple right now. it has a better feel and things just fall into place and are very customizable, much like macs used to be in their heyday. everyone is entitled to their own opinion though...and while the powerbook has a better battery life, im sure pc manufacturers could squeeze pretty good life out of an 867 mhz pentium at this point too if they had to..it isnt an issue for me as anywhere im playing live theres a power strip to plug into and otherwise i can just use the ac adapter
... the relevant factor got me here is: can I, as someone who is quite untalented at configuring computers, expect to be able to do flawless audio work on the Sony Vaio with an external audio box like the RME or Motu ---- without dropouts etc. ???random wrote: but it still doesn't explain why Apple charges substantially more for a system that actually runs slower when compared to a PC system in the same price range (when talking strictly about cpu performance).
The RME Tech info site suggests otherwise, and several experts do too.
I'm not talking about IT specialists - they can certainly fix lots of things. I'm talking about someone who wants to start making music immediately.
format
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Guest
This isn't uniwue to OS or any particular hardware. A friend of mine spent the best part of 6 months and a LOT of money getting his new Mac/MOTU/DP based setup working spic n span and as it should be and useful help from Apple, or the outlet purchased from, wasn't particularly forthcoming. MIDI timing was abysmal along with crashy DUY plugs. One chip on the board just plain fell off the motherboard as Apple had used a surface mount design when this particular chip should have been through-hole being on a vulnerable part of the motherboard.
It ain't all roses and light in Macland. He can't even move to the current OS if he wanted as his arsenal of, non inexpensive, plugins won't even run in it. Not to mention the next round of drivers being released and programmers tweaking them until v9.45.3654 finally does what it should have done in the first place.
That's a case for software over hardware. As far as hardware goes, and I am no PC zealot believe me, could you point me to a 16 I/O card that will run at 64 samples, hook straight to a digital desk, has the option of onboard plug ins that run at 2 sample latency from the likes of Drawmer, Aphex, Dolby, TC, Apogee, etc with an option to cascade them?
An OS and hardware is nothing without software. I am guessing that getting an equivalent setup using OS X will be an option for me in a few years. The software base will have grown and things will have been weeded out at core/driver and app level.
As far as options and expansion goes. Look at the Dell Inspiron laptop that has the option of the 4 PCI docking bay. It is the only laptop in existence as far as I am aware that has implemented PCI expansion PROPERLY and is packed with features at a not too prohibitive cost given it's expansion potential. It's my next move personally. I have tested it out with multiple Mixtremes and it behaved flawlessly in a complex Logic based 32 I/O setup and BOY does it feel slick compared to any Ti or Mac lappie I've tried out. Personally I don't care what operating system is on it but what I need doesn't exist in Macland as far as I am aware.
DT
It ain't all roses and light in Macland. He can't even move to the current OS if he wanted as his arsenal of, non inexpensive, plugins won't even run in it. Not to mention the next round of drivers being released and programmers tweaking them until v9.45.3654 finally does what it should have done in the first place.
That's a case for software over hardware. As far as hardware goes, and I am no PC zealot believe me, could you point me to a 16 I/O card that will run at 64 samples, hook straight to a digital desk, has the option of onboard plug ins that run at 2 sample latency from the likes of Drawmer, Aphex, Dolby, TC, Apogee, etc with an option to cascade them?
An OS and hardware is nothing without software. I am guessing that getting an equivalent setup using OS X will be an option for me in a few years. The software base will have grown and things will have been weeded out at core/driver and app level.
As far as options and expansion goes. Look at the Dell Inspiron laptop that has the option of the 4 PCI docking bay. It is the only laptop in existence as far as I am aware that has implemented PCI expansion PROPERLY and is packed with features at a not too prohibitive cost given it's expansion potential. It's my next move personally. I have tested it out with multiple Mixtremes and it behaved flawlessly in a complex Logic based 32 I/O setup and BOY does it feel slick compared to any Ti or Mac lappie I've tried out. Personally I don't care what operating system is on it but what I need doesn't exist in Macland as far as I am aware.
DT
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ettubaby
I just checked out the sony site and the equiv goes for 2699. It is cheaper but then again my Dell was much cheap and it runs at the same speed and the Dell weights much less than the 8lbs the sony does. It kinda looks like my Dell too. Sony seems to be leaving its great prev design. I had a z505 which looked great but had nothing built in and the battery life was like 45mins.
I also have a 1Gig Tibook and it was more expensive than all. Yes, its slight slower than my much inexpensive Dell. But, It like an arguement I use to have with a friend who had a camaro, he though his car was better because it was cheap and faster. But the real value is its repreived value. Mac keep there value much much better than PC.
I also have a 1Gig Tibook and it was more expensive than all. Yes, its slight slower than my much inexpensive Dell. But, It like an arguement I use to have with a friend who had a camaro, he though his car was better because it was cheap and faster. But the real value is its repreived value. Mac keep there value much much better than PC.