I've gotta sound off on the whole Live - MAC vs. PC thing...

[AceLuby]

Forget computer vs computer. It's about OS vs OS.

Isn't the priority obvious?

problem there is.. that you can't use OS X legally without purchasing a Mac.

Windows 7 FTW!!!

The priority is a UI that flows and not a couple hundred bucks on the part that'll get tossed eventually.

The OS is the important investment, who cares what it runs on. If you're learning a language, learn the good one.

'Who cares what it runs on'?

And what if your screen won't turn on or your hard drive stops working? How great is a system if it has faulty hardware where in the other thread people were saying how stupid it was to NOT get the $200 insurance.

What if I want to build a computer from scratch? No macs for that.

The OS is AN important investment, not THE important investment. It weighs in with anything else including hardware reliability.

[RCUS]

I knew this would be a hotly contested debate, but i must say I am impressed with the Mac users responses. I had expected to be flamed for venting my frustration with the hype. I'm still fairly new to these parts but I must say you Abe's are some of the coolest people on the planet.

Very good arguments on both sides.

Aside from being punch drunk from hearing BEP's "I got a feeling" waaaay too many times, I think my motivation to write the rant last night was driven by the fact that I had very specific requirements for my Live rig and i sought advice that was answered with alot of hype that I had to weed through. The hype stressed me out and made my search for the ideal live performance lappy even harder. It's hard to deny, you see that nice apple logo glowing onstage in club after club after club. To have people answer me with the "get a mac, it just works" line, and then to see this tank of a laptop (the T400) benchmark with performance on par with a quad core Mac desktop just blew me away! I guess I just needed to get it out.

[aqua_tek]

fuck microsoft and apple. Next time I'm buying an abacus

[knotkranky]

Forget computer vs computer. It's about OS vs OS.

Isn't the priority obvious?

The priority is a UI that flows and not a couple hundred bucks on the part that'll get tossed eventually.

The OS is the important investment, who cares what it runs on. If you're learning a language, learn the good one.

'Who cares what it runs on'?

And what if your screen won't turn on or your hard drive stops working? How great is a system if it has faulty hardware where in the other thread people were saying how stupid it was to NOT get the $200 insurance.

What if I want to build a computer from scratch? No macs for that.

The OS is AN important investment, not THE important investment. It weighs in with anything else including hardware reliability.

ok, so I guess you bought a faulty mac. Yeah, that doesn't happen anywhere else.

The point is making music, and getting to it as smoothly and a easy as possible.

You have other priorities is all. But for creation, I'd advise anyone with that motive to chose the OS over anything else.

[McQ714]

the OS has absolutely nothing to do with making music! unless of course your mac version of Live is somehow different than my PC version of Live and yours automatically writes music for you!?! we, as Live users, obviously don't care too much with all the glitz and glamour of pretty GUIs. so all i need is an OS that allows me to open up a software program and doesn't make me install iTunes and Quicktime because those are the two worst multimedia programs ever made. at least admit that much.. mac fanboys!!!

[DrXparaMental]

the OS has absolutely nothing to do with making music! unless of course your mac version of Live is somehow different than my PC version of Live and yours automatically writes music for you!?! we, as Live users, obviously don't care too much with all the glitz and glamour of pretty GUIs. so all i need is an OS that allows me to open up a software program and doesn't make me install iTunes and Quicktime because those are the two worst multimedia programs ever made. at least admit that much.. mac fanboys!!!

This "debate" is not something that can be won, or even successfully hashed out.<--not intended as a slight to knotkranky.

The truth is there is absolutely not one advantage to using a Mac. None, zip, notta. Has NOTHING to do with workflow, making music and how big your winky is.

Macs are the most over rated computer on the planet. Why? Because they pretend to be something different. OS X is not one bit better in any real measurable performance context than is XP. None.

It all boils down to preference. The majority of musicians that use computers STILL prefer PCs to Macs. Case closed, goodnight and go get laid.

[SubFunk]

McQ714 wrote:
the OS has absolutely nothing to do with making music! unless of course your mac version of Live is somehow different than my PC version of Live and yours automatically writes music for you!?! we, as Live users, obviously don't care too much with all the glitz and glamour of pretty GUIs. so all i need is an OS that allows me to open up a software program and doesn't make me install iTunes and Quicktime because those are the two worst multimedia programs ever made. at least admit that much.. mac fanboys!!!

jeeez... are there really that much dense people around?

just read what knotkranky is writing before posting crap. i don't expect anyone to agree with him, but at least read and understand, before writing.

[knotkranky]

OS X is easier to use.

yes or no?





cheers @SubFunk

[OvertoneZero]

worst thread ever

[SubFunk]

OS X is easier to use.

yes or no?

yes,

and i don't need 15-20 minutes to get a padkontrol on it going, for instance... downloading a driver, restarting before i can use it... counts for dozens and dozens of audio items, i don't need to download or manipulate anything to use several sound cards in parallel, etc.

i have eucon support... (OK that does not bother most of you) i don't need to download asio4all, made by some private dude, to make windows audio usable...

the list goes on and on...

or as i just read here on the forum to install SP2 just so my machine sees a 60 euro nanoKONTROL...

or disable stuff and configure my OS so i get the maximum out of my system, before i actually can start to make music with it.

whatever.


you know what?

to throw some more into the fire... just ask ableton support how much in percentage of the problems they receive are OS related... from the side of the system itself and from the side of the user (OS user errors!) under OSX and under windows...

dom actually mentioned it a while back here on the forum already

by the way GAFM ***

[AceLuby]

ok, so I guess you bought a faulty mac. Yeah, that doesn't happen anywhere else.

The point is making music, and getting to it as smoothly and a easy as possible.

You have other priorities is all. But for creation, I'd advise anyone with that motive to chose the OS over anything else.

I've never bought a faulty mac, way out of my price range. I also know that computers break, which is the reason I don't want to drop 2 grand on a machine. My gf's lappy is about to go because of HW issues, but it'll cost about $400 to replace. How much would it cost to replace a mac, or even fix one for that matter?

I haven't really had any issues on the PC's I've run. 'It just works' as the OP put it. I turn on my machine, click on Ableton and don't worry about anything after that. Takes about 30 sec.

My new PC showed up and I expected it to take a couple nights before everything was set up. Took 3 hours total before I was jamming and recording, most of it was installing Live and getting my files from one PC to the other.

If money was no object I would get a mac, but as it stands I can get 2 gaming laptops for the same price. Is the OS going to make THAT big of a difference where it would be worth double the initial investment? In my mind, no, but to each his own.

As it was pointed out, the OS doesn't help or impede my workflow in Live, so it plays a very small role in the PC that I use w/ Live for live work.

[hurlingdervish]

ive never had a problem with drivers on PC...

so what it takes going to the website for a 100 kb download

big woop. ill take that and save a few grand

when i make 200,000 a year i'll buy mac everything

because its an ostentatious brand.

[SubFunk]

ive never had a problem with drivers on PC...

so what it takes going to the website for a 100 kb download

big woop. ill take that and save a few grand

when i make 200,000 a year i'll buy mac everything

because its an ostentatious brand.

given you have internet access, which is not yet everywhere you need it.

i have seen situations on festivals where people had problems with a hardware unit and could not just borrow anything similar because of driver / internet issues... might seem as an extreme example to you... but i am old enough to have witnessed all sorts of weird stuff.

i am a fanboy, yes... but it does come from exactly those kinds of situations and experiences that makes me go wow... i made the right choice and recommend it to everyone... not just because i think it's cool.

[hurlingdervish]

granted most people arent as smart or experienced as you

i just hear a lot of people who know nothing go

"yea man you can only make musicz on macs"


not word for word...but you know

[derzai]

I've been so terribly bashed for having a mac that I seriously consider to get a PC.