I've gotta sound off on the whole Live - MAC vs. PC thing...

[knotkranky]

drag queens?

might as well be.. but, no!

that's Tyra Banks. and what do you know, she too is a whiner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOQh3ev ... re=related

and she uses a mac so therefore...

[DrXparaMental]

drag queens?

might as well be.. but, no!

that's Tyra Banks. and what do you know, she too is a whiner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOQh3ev ... re=related

and she uses a mac so therefore...

she's a witch!! Burn her!!

[knotkranky]

[nebulae]

@ Neb... i just realize... that is 34 tracks, that is a joke right?

to avoid misunderstanding... that is very little, my friend.

The arrange window shows 63, without having to scroll.

[SubFunk]

damn that is fun.

i don't know how long are some of the people involved into this discussion are already members of this forum... but the ones who have a halfway decent memory and a high conscious, might be able to tell how many people just on here in this very forum switched to mac over the last let's say 3 years and would not love to go back and why. opposed to the amount of people that switched and would like to go back to a PC... and why.

[knotkranky]

yeah it's fun. Btw, these are my first mac v pc posts.

It's kinda way easy.

[SubFunk]

@ Neb... i just realize... that is 34 tracks, that is a joke right?

to avoid misunderstanding... that is very little, my friend.

The arrange window shows 63, without having to scroll.

OK, that shows what?

that a PC can handle that... of course, dismissed. you also miss the point of discussion.

does it make windows more comfortable and reliable... NO. even if i don't doubt that it never lead to problems in your case... take 500 other users vs 500 OSX users. or if you are so good in PCs come to our company and deal with the systems there... but be aware that it might extend your home hifi / Ableton Live studio.

[Machinesworking]

@ Neb... i just realize... that is 34 tracks, that is a joke right?

to avoid misunderstanding... that is very little, my friend.

The arrange window shows 63, without having to scroll.

ummmm, Digital Performer was tested 6 years ago running 130 tracks on a shitty under powered mac.... Way to fail on the dick wagging there. WTF do you need 63+ tracks for anyway?? I've never understood the incentive to needlessly stack tracks? I typically run 22 or so, and not because my computer can't handle it, but because the song is layered enough at that point IMO.

[McQ714]

@ Neb... i just realize... that is 34 tracks, that is a joke right?

to avoid misunderstanding... that is very little, my friend.

The arrange window shows 63, without having to scroll.

OK, that shows what?

that a PC can handle that... of course, dismissed. you also miss the point of discussion.

does it make windows more comfortable and reliable... NO. even if i don't doubt that it never lead to problems in your case... take 500 other users vs 500 OSX users. or if you are so good in PCs come to our company and deal with the systems there... but be aware that it might extend your home hifi / Ableton Live studio.

i think you need to go back and read the first post of this thread again. maybe you just don't understand english too well!?! and the point of this discussion is now that my less expensive custom built daw kicks your mac's ass across the board. i have a faster CPU, faster RAM, and faster hard drives.

and who was the moron that said that vista 64 could only address 3 gb of RAM to a 32-bit application???

"I running windwos Vista 64-bit with 8-GB of ram. Most of my applications are 32-bit applications. How much RAM can VISTA dedicates to 32-bit application?"

64 bit editions of Windows can only attribute a total of 4 GiB of RAM to any single 32 bit virtual memory instance (or application), regardless of your total RAM. The reason is simple, 64 bit editions of Desktop Windows run on the x86-64 architecture, which is a processor architecture capable of running both 64 and 32 bit instructions, limiting 32 bit instructions (or applications) to what 32 bit limits them to, thus, 4 GiB of RAM.

Intel and AMD's specification of PAE does support the x86-64 architecture but the software layer of Microsoft's PAE (the API), called AWE, is not supported on 64 bit editions of Windows, so Windows Vista 64 bit cannot attribute more than 4 GiB of RAM for a 32 bit application.

In fact, true 64 bit architectures like the Intel Itanium processor do not support 32 bit applications. The only reason 32 bit applications work on 64 bit editions of desktop Windows is because the very architecture at its core, called x86-64 (often erroneously shortened to x64), is a hybrid architecture capable of running both 32 bit and 64 bit instructions.

It's also the reason why drivers may not work in 32 bit, but applications will, on Windows Vista 64 bit. The Windows Vista 64 bit kernel is written in 64 bit, and thus, drivers must also be written in 64 bit. If Microsoft would have made the kernel in 32 bit, expanded support would have had to rely on PAE, but drivers wouldn't have had to be re-written. In fact, Apple used that strategy with Mac OS X's transition to 64 bit processors and only its future Snow Leopard will have its kernel in 64 bit.

so for all of you who said that vista sucked because the drivers didn't work, that's because 3rd party devs didn't do what they needed to do to fix that. and congrats mac users. you finally have a 64-bit OS!!!

[SubFunk]

@ Neb... i just realize... that is 34 tracks, that is a joke right?

to avoid misunderstanding... that is very little, my friend.

The arrange window shows 63, without having to scroll.

ummmm, Digital Performer was tested 6 years ago running 130 tracks on a shitty under powered mac.... Way to fail on the dick wagging there. WTF do you need 63+ tracks for anyway?? I've never understood the incentive to needlessly stack tracks? I typically run 22 or so, and not because my computer can't handle it, but because the song is layered enough at that point IMO.

if you do live recording sessions / big pop / rock productions, 60 tracks plus is not much at all (depending on your kit and mic techniques a drum set can easy eat up already 20 tracks and more alone)... for electronic boom tschik, boom tschick i always wonder what the hell unnecessary they doing... i agree.

and that is something you can't compare, Live is all realtime of course it has by nature a much lower track count then DP, Logic or PT... if you could run only 60-70 tracks on a PT system in a recording studio you are basically fucked.

then again... this is way off topic, Live is not created for that sort of use...

[Machinesworking]

Just to get serious for one second (before going back to being a total ass, that is)

1. I've never had an issue with any of the PCs I've built in the past 10 years.
2. Never a trojan that my virus protection didn't thwart and destroy...meaning zero infection or infiltration.
3. Always cheaper than a mac by about 40-50%.
4. Always faster than an equally speced mac, especially with Live.
5. More options with software and hardware.
6. Ability to swap critical components without having to buy a whole new computer. Last year, new drives and ram. Some months ago, swapping the chip to a quadcore. And now, new video card.
7. Windows 7 is f-ing OUTSTANDING.

I have no doubt that OSX is excellent, and no doubts that the hardware goes thru ridiculous quality control. But I have a hard time making blanket statements like "macs are better" when my personal experience for over a decade is not the case.

I agree with this though, just not the bragging about a beta OS, or the swapping of RAM and hard drives as some miracle that only PCs can do, CPU/motherboard is pretty much the only thing that's difficult or impossible to swap on a mac.

Also, bragging about having to run virus protection and having it work?? <-- so you're running antivirus software and browsing the internet while Ableton Live is open? Sounds like a recipe for some fun software conflicts to me.

I still might get a Panasonic Toughbook though. Hopefully Windows 7 is out of beta if I ever do.

[IP]

there is not even a 0,001% for a win user to change the mind of a mac user
there is not even a 0,001% for a mac user to change the mind of a win user

Mac users feel more comfortable with mac
Win users feel more comfortable with win

mac can make music
win can make music

This topic cant go anywhere like millions of related topics to forums around the world.
Thats for sure.

Everyone has his personal opinion and all opinions should be respected.

I suggest to stop posting in the current topic
and start posting here http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 47&start=0
to help solve my problem

[McQ714]

Sounds like a recipe for some fun software conflicts to me.

Are you saying that you can't multi-task on a Mac???

that's what computers are made for. how would Live, a web browser and some antivirus software lead to any conflicts? what kind of POS computer are you running?

[Machinesworking]

so for all of you who said that vista sucked because the drivers didn't work, that's because 3rd party devs didn't do what they needed to do to fix that.

Right, and it's some stroke of genius then that they wrote great drivers for OSX? Seriously drivers on OSX were always good. I think it's pretty obvious that MS missed the boat with Vista, installing drivers on XP sucks as well, worst part of the experience IMO. Why installing three times is OK I'll never get? hopefully 7 turns out as universally accepted and awesome as the PC fanboys that are beta testing it for them say it is. Hopefully they have a better installation process?

[knotkranky]

hey, I just talked a friend out of a PC purchase this morning, she's going mac now.